Topic: Al Gore is an idiot

A sidenote that few people know, as I only recently discovered, is that hybrids actually increase air pollution. Its not the cars themselves, but how the government regulates the car companies. Its late and I dont feel like getting into details right now, but what it basically comes down to is that the gas milage of hybrids isn't tallied correctly by govs, making them seem much lower than they are. This, in turn, allows the car companies to produce more gas guzzling vehicles. Its all about some type of gov regulation about average gas mileage a companies total production must come to.

Bring on the extra details. I'd like to understand your assertation. (Unless you're just referring to Jevon's Paradox - which I don't think is the case.)

I like how he leaves it up to individuals. "You can make a difference!" Even though it's CORPORATIONS who are mass polluting the environment.

here we go again with the 'everyone who doesn't walkmy path is an idiot'

Let me know when you guys...so I can say I told you so.

here we go again with the 'everyone who doesn't walkmy path is an idiot'

Let me know when you guys...so I can say I told you so.

Is my perception NOT one of the "10,000 ways?" Am I not entitled to this opinion?

I'd like to think their watching documentries on how bad our culture has fucked up.

Some people just get jealous that Al is married to that fox, Tipper.

Yeah... I don't know how I feel about this. These are serious issues and people need to know the truth, not the limited version. Al Gore mentions exponential population growth, but not exponontial agriculture production. He mentions exponential CO2 emmitions, but not exponential oil production or peak oil.

"5 things you can BUY to continue your way of life."

did they commit the suicide?

"The money king is only an illusion. Capitalism is blind and barbaric. It buys consciences, governments, peoples and nations. It poisons the water and the air. It destroys everything. And to the U'wa, it says that we are crazy, but we want to continue being crazy if it means we can continue to exist on our dear mother EARTH.
U'wa Traditional Authority, May 7, 2002

Fidelity Investment in 2000 divested nearly $400 million in Oxy shares after being the subject of 75 protests in just six months.

I think that people tend to think that Liberal media is somehow more good than conservative media. Both are two heads of Mother Culture.

I'm surprised that so many of you guys hated the film so much. I would think that you'd all be leaping for joy that some awareness about these issues were finally being brought to the mainstream's attention. [/b]

That's why I hated it. I thought it was spreading more "awareness about these issues" but it is not. The issue isn't "Global Warming," the issue is "Civilization." You don't get anywhere by attacking the symptoms.

This will make it harder for people like us because, now people think they know it all. If I try to explain to someone global warming, they're like, "Yeah, I know. I saw the movie. I'm buying a Hybrid and better light bulbs."

You can believe whatever you want to. People just write whatever they write and it doesn't make a difference anyway.

Joe,

The whole "I'm buying a Hybrid and fluorescent bulbs and the world is fixed" thing happens to me all the time. I regularly interact with people, including my parents and in-laws and people in the tech industry, who believe it's all fixable with technology. And that's AFTER I've tried to explain to them the problem AND tried to introduce evidence.

I don't understand the dislike at all, and I've read this thread twice hoping to make sense of it.

I for one am glad to have assistance from someone with his resources and connections. He's pulling in the general direction we are, and I won't fault the guy if he's not shouting "read Ishmael! Civilization is the problem!" That approach will. not. work. And it's patently obvious it won't work.

Frankly, for all we know, he's read Quinn and sees this as the most effective way to get the ball rolling in that direction. It's not usually possible to get large groups of people to shift all the way from "civ = the best" to "civ = biggest problem". His movie is a step in the right direction. A large step for many people.

As for the media, if they were actually informing people about these issues, we wouldn't be needing Gore's movie to do the educating.

Can you not see the value of showing people the symptoms...?

A movie is a great way to "break the ice", because it's got that great combination - it can tell a story, and it's visual. Educators have learned that humans, as a group, learn very well from visuals and stories.

To be blunt, I think you're hate-on for Gore has clouded your judgement.

And while I'm at it: dump the idea that people are submissive.

Insulting them is both a false stereotype and completely counterproductive.

Have you made a feature length movie about the problems we face? Has anyone tried to do this?

not that i know of, but do you want to? i am certain that we could.

{By the fourth century, neither lions nor the Roman Empire were a threat to Christians...by then, Christians were on their way to becoming a threat to everyone else...}

{By the fourth century, neither lions nor the Roman Empire were a threat to Christians...by then, Christians were on their way to becoming a threat to everyone else...}

And then Gore's movie came along, and a whole lot of them went back to sleep.

Perhaps if you don't understand it now, nothing more I say will influence or add anything to your perspective. But for the hell of it, I will respond to specific things you said.

Show me where in the film Al Gore says "walk away" and I will agree that he is assisting me. If you are not a proponent of "walking away," but for continuing civilization, then yes, he is assisting you. Just because a film says, "we're in trouble" does not imply that it in any way is "pulling in the general direction we are."

"Show me where in the film Al Gore says "walk away" and I will agree that he is assisting me. If you are not a proponent of "walking away," but for continuing civilization, then yes, he is assisting you"

You're either furthering civilization, whether you're talking about stopping Global Warming, stopping Nuclear Warfare, electing a better president, etc.

I can imagine you use the words "general direction" because we have some similar "general topics." Themes like "Global Warming, Population Growth, etc." If someone is not saying, "Civilization is the problem" it is in no way part of the movement beyond civilization.

All you people keep sayinging "big groups would find it hard to understand..." How do you know? Have you spoken with big groups? Have you made a feature length movie about the problems we face? Has anyone tried to do this?

Why do you think this would be hard? Obviously because Mother Culture won't allow it. She won't allow anything that would stop civilization, so obviously Al Gore's movie is not only not a threat, but a great way to make people think that they are helping save the planet, by spending MORE money on lightbulbs. It's rather genious... in a sick kind of way.

"These issues..." These issues. What issues? The issue Quinn/Jensen/Diamond present and that we face is not Global Warming any more than it was the threat of Nuclear War, or World War or Disease. This is viewed no differently than every other "Global Crisis" Civilization has faced in the past. And the solution is to.... (drum roll)... CONTINUE CIVILIZATIONING! Big suprise. The issue is civilization, and it's not being addressed at all.

[quote:07d153732d="Joe"] Can you not see the value of showing people the symptoms...?

Yes, obviously movies are effective at showing people new/old myths... what's your point?

[quote:07d153732d="Joe"] And while I'm at it: dump the idea that people are submissive.

[quote:07d153732d="Joe"] Insulting them is both a false stereotype and completely counterproductive.

Annie's mom went to it the first day they showed it. She said there was a big turnout.

After the lights came on, she stood up in front of the screen and asked the audience how many of them read Ishmael? About half of them raised their hands, I guess. She then went on to say that Gore's movie is just a start when it comes to understanding the type of problems we face. And if you want to really understand why things are the way they are you need to read Ishmael, by Daniel Quinn, she said. I guess she had a lot more to say, but that was gist of it.

I've been checking the local library ever since and Quinn's books have been checked out more than usual. I've been watching them like I hawk since I stocked the local libraries full of Quinn's and Jensen's work.

So not all of the The Inconvenient Truth viewers went home and went back to sleep...

I think that ultimately it's an important film. It's a lot of information that people, I think, benefit from understanding. While the film may be mega-weak in the solutions department, it primes people. Many people might be looking for an alternative; now that they know there is a problem. But like the hippies before them, they won't have anywhere to go. That's where we come in. If we start getting alternatives worked out and off the ground, the people who were affected by a film like this might decide to make the plunge.

That's part of my point. You can't go from "full Taker" to "full Ishie" in one step.

and the removal/annihilation/eradication of fear, which happens instantaneously, creates a different state - one connecting and harmonizing, one which, if I had to put a word on it, I'd call love.

It's opening a door in a mind that was once closed to Quinn's work.

oh boy.

here we go again with the 'everyone who doesn't walkmy path is an idiot'

Let me know when you guys get to the 'hey he may not be perfect, but he's doing more than all of us collectively stage....' so I can say I told you so....


Enjoy your thread!

Perhaps they have no fear, because of their cultural knowledge of death as a beginning

It's a Taker conclusion that Taking is 'bad' or 'dysfunctional'.

Knowing fear IS half the battle.

But it's not a struggle that can be won.

And without fear, which I consider, after much speculation and no conclusion, the source of internal fragmentation and disconnection from reality, what would remain?

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

herbert totally stole that from fear factory's "fear is the mindkiller."

In short, we've taken a journey of discovery. For millions, literally, millions of people, this movie is an opportunity for a first step onto that journey.

Wow, that's a lot of Ishies in one place. Whereabouts is this Curt?

Sweet. That was the point I was trying to get across poorly. Your mom totally rocks!

A Green 'Truth': 5 Things to Buy

You are not helpless in the fight against global warming. Gore goes inside a Lowe's Home Improvement store outside Nashville, Tennessee, to show you the five things you can buy that will help solve the climate crisis…and save you a few bucks!

Compact fluorescent light bulbs: These energy-efficient bulbs cost less than $4 and are produced by major corporations like GE. If every household in America switched five regular light bulbs for five fluorescent bulbs, it would be the equivalent of taking 1 million cars off the highways for a full year.

Outdoor solar lighting: These yard or patio lights cost less than $20, and they don't burn any electricity or produce any CO2.

Programmable thermostats: Though these thermostats cost from $50 to $100, they can actually cut your heating and cooling costs. Set the setting so it's a little bit cooler in the winter and warmer in the summer when you're not in the house. A difference of 2 degrees can reduce a home's CO2 emissions by up to 9 percent over the course of a year.

Air filters: Changing the air filters in your heating and cooling systems regularly can knock 2 percent off of your CO2 output each year.

Electric hot water heater blanket: Hot water heaters use a lot of energy and generate a lot of CO2. A blanket costs less than $18 and can cut your home's CO2 emissions by almost 4 1/2 percent.

Thanks for the link Huby!

I sent a message with it stating the climate isn't the only thing in danger, it's also our society and we must become sustainable if we are going to exist.

Of course, it's going to be hard to maintain those carbon numbers when large corporations keep refusing to cooperate and remain pigeonholed as callous greedy batards:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061222/bs_nm/utilities_edisonintl_dc

Why surprised Joe?

Doesn't it make real business sense to invest in power generation that requires no inputs, drastically reducing running costs?

The 'affordability' of clean energy was only in question when oil was 30 dollars a barrel.